Vintage Celestion Guitar Speaker Cones

Vintage Celestion Guitar Speaker Cones

Tone Is In The Cone

Over the years Celestion have used various cones from different suppliers, all slightly different in tone.

Celestion have never really given any information out about their suppliers. Therefore a lot of the details about them that you might read elsewhere, often just turn out to be nonsense that has been repeated and passed down the grapevine over the years.

The information I have written on this page is based on my own experience dealing in vintage speakers. It may conflict with information you have picked up elsewhere, but is accurate to the best of my knowledge.

Quick links

About Recones
Pulsonic
‘Large Rib’ Pulsonic
RIC
98700
Kurt Mueller
‘Large Rib’ Kurt Mueller

Some Common Misconceptions Debunked!

The Kurt Mueller Myth

If your speaker has a ‘1777’ or ‘444’ stamp, it does not automatically mean it is a Kurt Mueller cone. These are actually Celestion part numbers and can be found on several different cone types.

1777 stamped Pulsonic cone - not a Kurt Mueller!
1777 stamped Pulsonic cone – not a Kurt Mueller.

Blank cones and handwritten markings

If your speaker has a hand written code, or is completely unstamped, this does not automatically mean it has been reconed. If it looks original and sounds original – it is probably original.

The ‘RIC’ cones from the mid 1970’s are particularly common to find with either a yellow chalk marking, or no marking at all.

RIC cone with handwritten 1777 code - not a recone and not a Kurt Mueller.
RIC cone with handwritten 1777 code – not a recone and not a Kurt Mueller.

About Recones

Old recones are usually fairly easy to spot because they will look a lot different to the original Celestion cones. Watch out for odd looking cones, over-sized or incorrect dust caps, unusual looking lead wire glue (the two black marks near the dust cap), and spider supports that overlap the frame rim or just look too new.

When reconing a speaker, the original gasket surrounds would often be re-used, especially if they have a date stamp on them. So an original gasket does not automatically mean the cone is original too. The white manilla gaskets are particularly easy to remove and re-fit.

Most speaker repair places will leave a sticker on the frame of the speaker somewhere and that is often the first visual clue.

Re-coned speaker with original gasket
Re-coned speaker with original gasket re-fitted

A common recone to find on older speakers is the Waldom recone kit, which usually has the cone stamp WF***.

Recones are not the end of the world and can still sound good if they are not coil rubbing. However, any collector value goes right out the window once the original cone is gone. So never pay top dollar prices for a reconed vintage speaker.

Celestion factory recones

Celestion would sometimes print a new date stamp when reconing a speaker. This is usually accompanied by an additional ‘RW’ stamp, and can often be found on the old alnico’s from the 60’s. Obviously if it is a very old recone from when Celestion were still using pulsonic cones then this should not affect value too much and will still be a desirable speaker to most people.

Early 60's Vox blue speaker, reconed & restamped - 13th July 1970
Early 60’s Vox blue speaker, reconed & restamped – 13th July 1970

Cone Types

Shown below are some of the most commonly found cones from the 1960’s and 1970’s.

Pulsonic Cones

The pulsonic cones first appear around mid 1962, most notably on the T530 “vox blue“. They are easily the most sought after cones by guitarists because they have a superior quality to their tone that cannot be found in any other speaker cone. Their slightly softer and more ‘fluid’ sound is particularly popular with blues and classic rock guitarists.

An early H1777 Pulsonic cone
An early H1777 Pulsonic cone

Pulsonic cones are highly collectable due to their association with the legendary guitar players of the period such as Jimi Hendrix and The Beatles, and their use in the old 60’s Marshall and Vox amplifiers.

A late 60's 003 stamped Pulsonic cone
A late 60’s 003 stamped Pulsonic cone

Legend has it that a fire at the Pulsonic factory in late 73 destroyed the magic formula for making those sweet sounding cones. Nobody has successfully managed to replicate them in my opinion, though several boutique brands have tried, as well as Celestion themselves with their Heritage greenback range.

There are various cone stamps to be found on pulsonic cones, largely depending on when they were made. Some stamps are less familiar than others, including the ‘1777’ stamp which people often incorrectly assume must be a Kurt Mueller.

A while ago I found an unusual T652 speaker with both the H1777 and 003 stamp on the cone. I decided to include it here as my evidence for the non-believers. Same cone, two different stamps:

An unusual cone with both pulsonic cone stamps.

Pulsonic cone stamps through the years

75Hz Pulsonic Stamps55Hz Pulsonic Stamps
H1777 or **/H1777mid 1962 to 1966SP444 or **/SP4441966 to 1967
003 or **/003mid 1966014 or **/014mid 1966
**/102/003mid 1962 to 1967**/102/0141966 to 1967
** 102 003mid 1962 to Apr 1971** 102 0141966 to Apr 1971
102/3 or 102 3Apr 1971 to Apr 1973102/14 or 102 14Apr 1971 to Apr 1973
3Feb 1973 to Apr 1974141972 to Apr 1973
1777Feb 1973 to Apr 19744Apr 1973 to Apr 1975
1777 (large rib)Aug 1974 to Apr 1975102/30Apr 1971 to Apr 1973
5Apr 1973 to Apr 1974
0444 (large rib)Aug 1974 to Apr 1975
'**' = a variable two digit number said to represent the week of the year the cone was made
Note - dates shown are for very rough guidance only - expect transitional overlaps.

‘Large Rib’ Pulsonic Cones

These cones are basically the same as the earlier pulsonic cones but have noticably larger ‘ribs’ (proper name is ‘corrugators’). They can usually be found on ‘creamback’ speakers made between mid 1974 to mid 1975.

If the fire in 73 story is true, these were possibly made from the remaining stock of pulp.

The typical cone stamps are ‘1777’ for a 75Hz cone and ‘0444’ (notice the leading zero) for a 55Hz cone.

Transitional Pulsonic cone
‘Large Rib’ Pulsonic cone

Their sound is very similar to the previously mentioned pulsonics, but you might notice they are marginally brighter at lower volume levels. The beauty of these cones is that because they were produced a little more recently they tend to turn up in better condition than the older pre-rola speakers and are usually a lot cheaper to buy!

Most people dismiss these cones as Kurt Muellers because of the cone stamps. A classic example of how a lot of guitarists use their eyes when evaluating gear, rather than their ears!

‘RIC’ stamped cones

Most commonly seen on greyback and creamback speakers from around August 1973 to mid 1975, and on most ‘G12’ alnico speakers made before mid 1962. These cones were probably made in house at Celestion’s Thames Ditton factory (in my opinion).

RIC cone
RIC cone

They are usually fairly easy to identify by their blue/grey appearance, and they do not usually have a ‘shadow’ around the dustcap like a pulsonic or mueller cone.

Their sound is quite distinctive, and they are generally under-rated by most people. Often described as ‘dark’ sounding which may be unfair. They are very nice sounding cones in my opinion, with a smooth sound that can tame a harsh sounding amplifier, and they can be superb for lead work, although do lack some of the sparkle found in other cones and can be a bit ‘boxy’ for rhythm playing. Try mixing with a pulsonic for the best of both worlds.

Other stamp variants found on non-greenback models include ‘NIB’, ‘ROB’ and ‘JIL’, which I am confident are cones from the same factory but made to different specifications. The NIB cone was standard on the 10″ speaker model 7442 used by Marshall all the way through from late 1960’s to mid 1970’s, and is a very highly regarded speaker amongst Marshall collectors.

Stamp variations:

It is common to find the RIC cones without any stamps or other markings, particularly around early 1974. So be careful not to dismiss them as recones. I have definitely owned more without stamps than with.

Another variation is a handwritten 1777, 1444 or 444 in yellow chalk. Again, these are not recones, and are fairly common for late 73/ early 74.

98700 cones

These are very rare cones and were only used for a short period. They can usually be found on creamback speakers made between May and July 1974 – with date stamps EG, FG, or GG.

The rare 98700 cone
The rare 98700 cone

Very little is known about them, but I can tell you they are some of the nicest cones you can find and are well worth looking out for. Please do not dismiss them as recones. The tone is slightly less mid focused than the pulsonics, so a bit flatter sounding, but still a very nice smooth & fluid tone, not harsh or gritty.

Kurt Mueller Cones

These are the most common cone to find on the late 70’s and 80’s speakers; the ‘blackbacks’, G12-65’s and G12-80’s etc. They first appear early 1975 and were used well into the 1980’s.

Their tone is a bit more aggressive than the pulsonic cones and may be more suited to your style if you play heavy rock. They are a good sonic match to the master volume Marshall amps of the period.

Kurt Mueller cone
Kurt Mueller cone

Usually stamped 1777 (75hz cone) or 444 (55hz cone), depending on the speaker model.

They tend to be pale grey in appearance wth a slight shadow around the dust cap. Although colouration does seem to vary and can appear darker or more blue in some cases – this can happen if a different dye has been used for the paper pulp.

Stamp variations:

The first Mueller cones from early 1975 are usually unstamped, or may only have a small single digit number written on them in marker or chalk, with a brown colouration to the doping.

Through mid 1975 some Muellers have their codes handwritten in black marker.

The white 1777 and 444 stamps only seem to appear on Mueller cones towards the end of 1975. Earlier 1777 stamps are unlikely to be Muellers, and are probably Pulsonic or large rib Pulsonic.

Some late 70’s and 80’s cones are stamped in black ink, and can often be difficult to see.

‘Large Rib’ Kurt Mueller Cones

These cones are a variation of Kurt Mueller (in my opinion – could be wrong) and can be found sporadically on blackback speakers and G12-65’s made in the late 1970’s. They basically sound near enough the same as the previously mentioned Kurt Mueller cones. However at low volume they are a little bit clearer and brighter sounding to my ears, which I do prefer.

Large rib Kurt Mueller cone
Large rib Kurt Mueller cone

​The most notable difference is the larger ribs on the cone and the lack of any cone stamp. The back of the cones are usually darker (more black in appearance) than the usual Kurt Mueller cones.

62 Comments

  1. Rick Zipp Zipp
    May 14, 2019 / 4:20 am

    I’d like to find out what drivers I have year etc etc
    FJ18X T2168
    1777 on cone
    Thanks for considering

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      May 15, 2019 / 2:47 pm

      Hi, FJ18 = 18th June 1976, with Kurt Mueller 75Hz cone. The ‘X’ is just a factory stamp and can be ignored. T2168 is the same as T1221 but without the plastic magnet cover, so it is basically a standard G12M greenback without the cover. More info here:

      https://www.bygonetones.com/celestion-date-codes.html
      https://www.bygonetones.com/celestion-speaker-models.html#T1221
      https://www.bygonetones.com/celestion-cones.html#KurtMueller

      Hope that helps, Brian.

    • Norbert Marsh
      August 9, 2020 / 3:06 pm

      Hello Brian,
      I am considering to buy a Rola Celestion G12-50 speaker, it has a T2850 and a DN21 stamp (Apr.21st1980?) on the frame, a white dust cap and a 2639 stamp on the cone. Also a cork rim. Seems not to match your list, could be a recone?
      Thank you,
      Bert

      • Brian Harding
        Author
        August 11, 2020 / 11:48 am

        Hi Bert, I am not familiar with that one sorry. Can you send me some photos of it? I will add it to the list.

        Those G12/50’s tend not to be designed for guitar as such. They are usually more of a neutral sounding speaker to be used with line-in sources. The 2638 cone is likely original, just a different specification to the usual 1777 and 444 cones of the period.

        If you email Celestion themselves they should be able to tell you more about it, and what is was designed for – drdecibel@celestion.com

        Hope that helps, Brian.

  2. Mark
    May 19, 2019 / 11:39 am

    Hello Brian – i’ve had a speaker for 30 years unidentified and it would just be novel to know its identity though i feel its probably a Fane not a celestion. On chassis it has 1221457 and 1198 * (< * = 4 or a 1 ). It appears to have a large rib cone, 8 ohm with big magnet and the large dust cap. I just wondered if the codes gave it away to you ?.

    Great site – Kind regards

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      May 20, 2019 / 9:56 am

      Hi Mark, can you email me some photos please? info@bygonetones.com It does sound like a Fane speaker to me. Most of them have the ‘122/’ prefix to the model number.

      Brian.

  3. Mark
    May 25, 2019 / 10:28 am

    Hi Brian thanks for your reply will do

    Regards – Mark

  4. Dominic
    June 7, 2019 / 9:12 am

    I have 2x T1281 G12H 55 Hz greenbacks from end 73 and beginning of 74, both have RIC1 cones. Shouldn’t they have been creambacks?

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      June 8, 2019 / 6:49 pm

      Hi, well end of 73 into early 74 would normally be greybacks, but you can find the green still being used into 74 yes. It is nothing to worry about. There were transitional overlaps. Also previous owners might swap them around or buy them online as spares.

      Brian.

  5. jonny
    July 17, 2019 / 2:52 am

    hi, i actually worked at meullers years ago for a while. the cones are made in a mesh mould 4 on a rotating machine,and the papers is poured in from a massive vat high up. there was a room full of these machines, we would churn out 1000’s per week, there was no custom, hand babying, intense criteria selection- bang ’em thru, like cheeseburgers , we are running to a timeline..if it works, and no faults- its all good. the paper pulp was just a speaker paper- what type i never saw any different type, what changed was the mesh grill and corresponding piece that pressed down. sometimes there would be 2 stuck together (rejected) but the moulds were all different. there was alot of steam, as the paper was dried out by the heated part, steam, dirt, dust.. sometimes scrap cones would be chucked back into the vat to go through the process- that was the dirtiest job you will ever have seen, climbing up there. the original moulds would be the way to get the original tone, as the thickness could vary, i sorted 1000 s out, chucked 1000’s. the experts in the field probably have original cones, they have measured, and cut through samples. thats my 002cts.. it is like the chase for period strat scratch plates, paying a fortune, or a 60’s wound pickup..

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      July 17, 2019 / 10:57 am

      Hi Jonny, interesting info, thanks for sharing.

      Brian.

    • David Valdez
      January 12, 2020 / 6:46 pm

      Do you know 1n late 74 they used a 3 underlined stamp.i have a Oct 73 g12 gryback only mark is a chalk 3 not stamp on cone. Could it be a pulsonic hand written 3 indication ? Its white chalk on leg its t1221.date code kf18 thanks

      • Brian Harding
        Author
        January 12, 2020 / 9:02 pm

        Hi David, can you email me some photos of the speakers? They are most likely RIC or pulsonic cones, but I would need to see them to confirm.

        Brian.

  6. Chris
    August 8, 2019 / 5:07 am

    Thanks for the site and sharing this info. I have a 63-ish AC30 that has the original blues and was curious to learn more about the speakers/cones as they make all of my amps sound magical. They both are stamped RIC or R/C Rola Celestion. Even Jim Elyria’s Vox book doesn’t have much info on these cones and mostly focuses on Pulsonic and Kurt Mueller cones. Are there any vintage 10″ speakers that sound similarly smooth/dark you can recommend for an AC10?

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      August 12, 2019 / 12:23 pm

      Hi Chris, fwiw I’m not convinced the RIC code represents ‘Rola Celestion’. Just because there are other cone stamps on Celestion speakers that appear to be from that same cone manufacturer. I’ve definitely seen ‘NIB’, ‘ROB’, ‘JIL’, and there are probably loads of others I haven’t come across yet. As for 10″ speakers definitely try the 7442 model ceramic speaker. This came with the NIB cone as standard all through the 1960’s and never the pulsonics. Find them mostly in Marshall gear. 10″ alnicos are more difficult to find. Elacs were a popular choice at the time but they are quite bright and chimy. Goodmans would probably give you a darker tone than the Elacs.
      Hope that helps,
      Brian.

  7. michael j parker
    November 26, 2019 / 9:09 am

    I’ve been offered a pre-Rola T1221 but it has both 444 and 1777 printed on the on the cone, doesn’t seem right or does it?

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      November 26, 2019 / 11:04 am

      Hi, no those are recones. Those are late 70’s Mueller cones. Is it the pair on ebay at the moment? The doping is wrong too for 69, it would not be as broad as that.

      Brian.

  8. Michał
    December 3, 2019 / 11:28 am

    Hi! I have Simms Watts cab with G12H30 T1217 and EE code below and 2 06 04 on every cones. Do you have an idea what does it mean? They were reconed?
    Thanks
    Michał

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      December 3, 2019 / 12:24 pm

      Hi Michal, yes it sounds like they are recones. You can email me some photos to confirm, but those speakers should have the 102/3 pulsonic stamps on the cones if original. The EE date stamp is May 1972.

      regards, Brian

  9. Gavrilo
    December 21, 2019 / 11:11 am

    Brian,
    One of my speakers have 1975 stamp on the cone, T2320 and HJ20 on chassis. White cloth dust cap. Do you have any information about this cone? Is that 75hz or 55hz?
    Thanks ,
    G

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      December 21, 2019 / 2:15 pm

      Hi Gavrilo, T2320 is a G12/50 model, HJ20 = 20th August 1976. The 1975 stamped cone is most likely a Kurt Mueller made cone, but that’s only an ‘educated guess’ based on the year it was made. I believe it is a 75hz cone, see T2239 on my T-number list. You might want to email dr.decibel@celestion.com for confirmation, they have every speaker model on file there. regards, Brian.

      • Gavrilo
        December 21, 2019 / 4:46 pm

        Thank you Brian.
        Best regards,
        Gavrilo

  10. June 8, 2020 / 8:20 pm

    Man, I feel so bomb. The man lives in another part of the country. I am handicapped and I bought ” blindly” though I asked him to send a picture of the quad – he sweared and signed onto the receipt that I got 4 X 12″ four (at least) greenbacks, even 2 pulsonic greenbacks
    2 of them was “Vintage 30″ – the other 2, I haven’t even found what they were…
    – They have a number on the cone: 1306FG1201 and on the cone 3 45 088
    – The cone is about 31/2″ and curved in. I feel quite stupid, that I didn’t ask for a picture.
    Nerver mind, I still have a 4 x 12” but well paid for.

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      June 12, 2020 / 11:24 am

      Hi, I feel your pain, that sucks. Sometimes it works the other way too though, you can get lucky with a nice set of speakers just because the seller was too lazy to check what was in there.

      Brian.

  11. Pete
    June 14, 2020 / 12:10 am

    Hi cool site. I got a 1983 g12-65 from a Proamp Viper. Proamp were based in Essex. Got the amp for 60 euro so a fresh deal. Speaker is as new. Would this be a good vintage for these? It’s the 1777 cone. Thanks

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      June 16, 2020 / 12:44 pm

      Hi Pete, sorry for late reply. Yes a G12-65 from 1983 should be a really nice sounding speaker with the Kurt Mueller 1777 cone. A good vintage. However you should always check old Celestion speakers for coil rub and lifting spider supports, it is not a given that they will just be perfect speakers.

      Hope that helps anyway,

      Brian.

  12. Pete
    June 16, 2020 / 5:12 pm

    Hi Brian. Thanks for taking the time to answer. The speaker is now in a Peavey Classic 30 and it sounds the business. The Blue Marvel was a bit harsh for apartment use, the g12-65 is much more easy on the ear. Perfect match. Funnily the Blue Marvel sounds great in the 80’s solid state as a cab or using it as an amp. The speaker had coil rub for a few minutes when I cranked it the first time but it seems to have cleared up.

    But I can say that a vintage Celestion g12-65 is the perfect match for a peavey classic 30.

    Cheers again. Your site is a cool piece of archive work.

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      June 20, 2020 / 10:49 pm

      Hi Pete, thanks glad you found the site useful, and are enjoying the G12-65. Yes sometimes speakers can have dust in the coil gap and a good loud blast can clear it!

      Brian.

  13. Alvaro
    July 30, 2020 / 8:29 pm

    Hi. I’ve bought an 80’s cheap solid state amp with a ROLA Celestion. It has a magnet sticker G12/50. As per my knoledge the speaker year is 1983 and is from May, it has a stamp ER4 on the chassis leg. The model is T2967 – 8ohm. The white stamp at the cone is 2712 followed by a indecifrable white spot…does this 2712 mean anything?
    Cheers
    Alvaro

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      July 31, 2020 / 9:42 am

      Hi Alvaro, it is just the part number and does not really mean anything as such. Just a different specification to the usual 1777 and 444 cones. Likely made by Mueller, but I can’t say for sure.

      Hope that helps anyway,

      Brian

  14. Mark Ashley
    August 1, 2020 / 8:57 pm

    Hi Brian,
    Got one of these left- a smooth cone G12-80 with date code GQ20 (07/20/82?)
    And frame code T2880. And is 15 ohm Rola Celestion
    Black cone is marked in black with ‘3608’-
    Never seen that cone number before?
    Any clues ?

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      August 5, 2020 / 11:56 am

      Hi Mark, sorry for late reply. The 3608 cone stamp just means it has a different cone specification to the usual 1777 and 444 cones of the period. GQ20 would be 20th July 1982 yes. The speakers with smooth cones are designed a little differently to guitar speakers, and don’t always sound good with guitar, especially with distortion.

      Hope that helps anyway, Brian.

      • August 5, 2020 / 3:55 pm

        Thanks for your help with this speaker, Brian!
        Rock on!
        Mark

  15. Frederik De Roeck
    August 5, 2020 / 9:50 am

    Dear,

    I recently bought a combo amplifier which came with a G12-65. From the date stamp, I expect it to be made in 1979. So far, I can’t find a cone stamp, but I do see some logo, which you can see in the picture. Do you have any idea what it is? The front of the speaker, cone-wise, looks very much like the large rib Mueller cone you showed in the article.

    https://ibb.co/XbqbK9f

    Kind regards

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      August 5, 2020 / 11:50 am

      Hi Frederik, it is probably a large rib Kurt Mueller as described in the article. I can’t be 100% sure those cones are actually made by Kurt Mueller. They could be from another manufacturer, but when I compared them, they did sound very similar to the normal Kurt Mueller cones, maybe a little brighter. The little black ink squiggle you see on your cone is common on Mueller cones too.

      Hope that helps, Brian.

  16. Jerry
    August 19, 2020 / 11:17 pm

    Hello Brian,

    thank you so much for all your diligent research and effort you have given us. It is most appreciated and valued to say the least. I’m being patient as I go about reorganizing my speakers and cabs, and also regret parting with my G12M25 75 hz quad of Black Backs.
    Needless to say, I did buy a quad of 55 hz, but I’m selling them.
    So I have recently been searching for Pre-Rolas G12M25 75 hz 102 003 & G12H30 55hz 102 014. It has been confusing to say the least, I assumed a 75 hz would be 003 not 014?
    And the same with the 55 hz, not being an 003 cone?
    I have found these https://reverb.com/item/35308725-quad-of-original-pre-rola-celestion-greenbacks-from-1970-g12h-t1534-pulsonic-cone-102-014-55hz-aluminium-dust-cap, but I’m unsure of the aluminum dust caps? Will they be a hinderance to the tone? will they fall off? I may have opportunities to score these speakers here in Jersey? But I want to follow up on all leads.

    Thanks Again,

    Jerry

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      August 20, 2020 / 10:43 am

      Hi Jerry, glad you are finding the website useful. I get asked about the 75Hz & 55Hz labels quite a lot. Basically the Celestion labels only had 55hz written on them from about 1972 onwards. Thats the Rola labels with the speaker symbol on them. Before this, and during the pre-rola period they just put 75Hz labels on everything. It’s as if they were short on labels and did not have specific labels for every speaker model they made. So some speakers shared the same label or had little stickers amending the information on them. The way to check is by the stamp on the cone – 014 for 55hz models, and 003 for 75hz models.

      Model T1534 is a 55hz model speaker. So the 014 cone stamp is correct, and I would expect to see a 75Hz label on them in 1970. However, the ones in your link have clearly been repaired. Personally I would pass on those and wait for some in original condition. The silver dust caps are definitely not original. I doubt the dustcaps would fall off but you don’t know what repairs have been carried out, possibly to the voice coil, that could have a serious impact on how they sound. If he was selling them cheaply as repaired speakers then fair enough, but at that price I would pass. If you wanted to resell them in the future I think you would struggle to get even 50% of that money back. They are only worth premium prices in perfect 100% original condition in my opinion.

      Hope that helps,

      Brian

      • Jerry
        August 21, 2020 / 12:12 am

        Hi Brian,

        thank you so much. Not only will I steer clear of them, but the seller as well.

        • Brian Harding
          Author
          August 22, 2020 / 11:01 am

          Hi Jerry, in fairness he does mention they have been repaired, lower down in the description after all the holy grail spiel. The asking price does not reflect that though in my opinion. I’ve seen worse from other sellers on reverb. Recones described as original etc. Fwiw the silver dust cap model used by Laney was the T1976 model. They also used Goodmans with silver caps.

          Brian.

  17. stefftrimSteffen
    September 5, 2020 / 3:27 pm

    Hey Brian
    Can a stamp on a 1217 have a stamp: 58/ 103 or 59/ 103. One of the cones has something spilled onto it, but the Price is £255 plus delevery to Denmark. Is it too cheep?
    Regards Steffen

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      September 5, 2020 / 6:12 pm

      Hi Steffen, yes it’s possible, what year are they? Value-wise it really depends on how they sound, not what they look like.

      Brian.

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      September 8, 2020 / 3:09 pm

      Hi, that sounds a bit unusual actually, do you have a link to the listing? Or some photos of it? If the date stamp is ‘EF’ with no numbers in in it, then that is a common back to front date stamp for June 1972.

      Brian.

  18. September 6, 2020 / 2:06 pm

    Hi Brian
    Thanks for the swift reply; it was sold, but I found another that looks without fraud. I’m tying to collect a quad.
    I have a question for the cone number collection. A Rola produced “Marshall” labelled 12″ H-100, 8 ohm with white cone number: 1230. It was in a 65/66 JMP 2150 combo. I’m not gonna buy it because I go for 16 ohms, but considering your cone number collection, I wonder if it can be valuable as information.
    Best regards
    Steffen, Denmark

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      September 8, 2020 / 3:10 pm

      Hi Steffan, can you email me a link to the listing or some photos please? Sounds interesting.

      Thanks, Brian.

  19. September 12, 2020 / 5:29 pm
    • Brian Harding
      Author
      September 12, 2020 / 6:11 pm

      Hi Steffan, this looks like a Goodmans speaker to me rather than a Celestion. Very unusual. Maybe the label has been transferred from a different speaker?

      Brian.

  20. September 12, 2020 / 6:39 pm

    I think you’re right, Brian. I found a 12″ 8 ohm, 50 watt Goodmans speaker on a Danish (dba.dk) website. It says Selmer on “hood” 1964 stamp I found was 23 1 on the corks (not it’s the right word) the edge / frame around the inside.
    But the “bay” said it was on a Marshall combo, well what do I know. I am in a learning process.
    It was maybe worth it, uf it had turned up to be pulsonic.
    Take care
    Steffen

  21. September 17, 2020 / 7:34 am

    Hi Brian
    Last question for now! G12H30 T1217, Jan ’74. Graybacks, grey inside cone with small ribbles; grey coloured on outside of cone. No stamp on any. Very clear tone though more boomy than a M. I have heard a RIC cone, this less treble.
    I have played them next to 2 x 12M25 T1221 pulsonic, aside from the sound on E&A strings they sound alike.
    Is reasonable to assume that stock of pulsonic cones were left in Jan74? Seller verified original cone very still on (they look used and aged but good condition)
    I’m done buying for now and won’t haress you for a while, Brain 🎸

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      September 17, 2020 / 10:04 am

      Hi Steffen, Jan 74 with no cone stamp is almost certainly a RIC cone, but I would need to see photos of them to confirm. If you want to email me some – info@bygonetones.com They can sound different when compared just due to the ageing process.

      regards, Brian.

  22. Anders Brandser
    September 25, 2020 / 10:16 am

    G12/50 Blackback Cone stamp “1975”

    Is this speaker from the year 1975 or what’s up with this cone? It sure looks original!

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      September 28, 2020 / 2:25 pm

      Hi Anders, the 1975 cone stamp was standard on some Celestion speaker models, it is not a date stamp. If you look at the T-number list you will find a few G12/50 and G12/50M with that stamp. Just a different specification than the usual 1777 and 444 guitar cones. Hope that helps, Brian.

  23. Adam G
    September 30, 2020 / 3:03 pm

    Hi Brian, thanks for the amazing resource you have put together with this site. I have a ’75 Marshall 1935A which has a quad of cream-back T1511s. Two are dated GH12X and two are AH20X. Of the four, three have unstamped cones, so I’m assuming are RICs, while the fourth (one of the AH20X’s) has a “102 014” stamp. The two AH20X drivers sound a lot like the Pulsonic-coned G12M25s I’ve got, while the two GH12Xs sound much closer to the Kurt Mueller’s I own.

    The question is: could it be that the two AH20X stamped drivers have Pulsonic cones, even though only one of them has a stamp?
    The seller told me he thought the cone with the 102 014 stamp must be a recone but I don’t see any evidence of that, including the fact it sounds so similar to the other driver in the same cab with the same date code. Furthermore the stamp has the Pulsonic format and so surely wouldn’t be a replacement cone from post-’75 when the speaker was originally made.

    Any thoughts would be great, thanks in advance!

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      September 30, 2020 / 4:00 pm

      Hi Adam, assuming they are original cones, then the two unstamped GH12X are most likely going to be Kurt Mueller’s in 75. The first Mueller cones were unstamped like that through 1975 from what I have seen, so that is normal. As for the other two AH speakers they do sound a bit odd to me. The 102 104 cone is definitely unusual for 1975 and the unstamped pulsonic would also be unusual. I would be interested to see some photos of that pair if you can email me some info@bygonetones.com It’s possible they are old recones but you do get oddball speakers from time to time too. I once saw someone selling a late 1975 creamback with a ‘3’ stamped pulsonic cone that looked all original. It’s possible they are old Celestion recones but unless Celestion marked them as a recone it would be very difficult to differentiate them. How was the wiring in the cab? Did the solder joints look original? Did the speakers come out of the cab easily or were they stuck to the baffle? Little clues like that can tell you if the speakers have been messed about with in the past.

      Brian.

      • Adam G
        September 30, 2020 / 7:31 pm

        Hi Brian, That’s great info to have, and I’m relieved to see my ears weren’t deceiving me about that pair that sound distinctly “KM”-y! I’ll open up the cab again and send photos and further information to you at your email. As far as I remember the wiring all looked pretty original.

  24. October 27, 2020 / 9:42 pm

    Is it possible that black back T1221 speakers from a lovely sounding 1975 Marshall 2045 cabinet might have Pulsonic cones?

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      October 28, 2020 / 1:25 pm

      Hi Rick, yes it’s possible, send me the photos if you can. info@bygonetones.com

      thanks, Brian.

      • October 29, 2020 / 12:27 am

        Photo’s sent. 🙂

  25. Max Hone
    November 27, 2020 / 5:34 pm

    Hi Brian. Got an old 12” Vox speaker with 102 003 stamp. Pulled it ages ago from an old Wem Dominator. Don’t know much about it’s history. Sounds very nice and is in great condition.
    Any idea about it’s origin and value?
    Thank you
    Max

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      November 27, 2020 / 9:27 pm

      Hi Max, can you email me some photos please? info@bygonetones.com

      thanks, Brian

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      November 28, 2020 / 6:17 pm

      Hi, from what I can see those appear to be recones unfortunately. I think the stamp is actually ’53 H1777′ just the ink has smudged a bit making it look like a 63. Those cones are the standard Celestion cones used on the G12M greenback and G12H ’30th anniversary’, from about the late 90’s to present day.

      Hope that helps, Brian.

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