How To Spot Fake Vintage Marshall Gear

How To Spot Fake Vintage Marshall Gear

The vintage gear market can be a daunting place, with seemingly lots of dis-honest sellers out there looking to rip people off.

In this blog post I will be going over a few basic pointers for identifying fake vintage Marshall gear, and hopefully this will prevent a few people from getting stung.

The Hotspot For Fake Marshall Gear

The most collectable Marshall gear is obviously the vintage stuff. Anything from day 1 (supposedly 1962) to the end of the basketweave period (mid 1971), are the most likely items to be faked or ‘lashed-up’.

In particular, be very wary of anything from the pinstripe period; circa 1965 to early 1968. Amps such as the 18w combos and bluesbreaker combos are an absolute favourite for fraud due to the high sale prices they can bring.

Genuine vs Reproduction parts

The best way to identify fake gear is to look very closely at the various parts.

Warning – the rest of this blog post is going to get very nerdy, so leave now if this is likely to bore you!

Grey pinstripe grill material

There are a couple of known reproduction pinstripe grill materials around, but they can be difficult to differentiate without seeing them very close up. This is one of the reasons why some online dealers only take blurry or distant photos of their gear!

The closest reproduction is the Eric Collins material. It is 99% the same as the original material but there are minor differences in the print pattern:

Notice the square tread pattern on the original material.

A more obvious reproduction material exists, apparently manufactured in China. It can be found on a lot of the older fakes made in the 1990’s:

Reproduction pinstripe grill material

Reproduction pinstripe grill material

I have never seen this stuff in person, but apparently it feels quite rough – almost like sandpaper. The visual difference is fairly obvious in my opinion, with no print pattern showing inside the grey sections.

Brown pinstripe grill material

You may have seen the brown pinstripe material shown in Michael Doyle’s History of Marshall book. Although the material itself is genuine and not a reproduction, it is unlikely to have ever actually been used by Marshall. Never say never of course, but all the examples I have ever seen have been fakes.

Unfortunately there are several books out there containing mis-leading reference information & photos like this. Contributions made by fraudsters posing as experts.

This was a clever strategy for selling their lash-ups during pre-internet times, when books were the main reference material available.

I should add – I’m not blaming the authors of those books at all, just some of their information sources.

Apparently, a single full roll of brown pinstripe, still in its original brown wrapping, was purchased at an auction in Surrey. The packaging still had the Marshall factory address attached, but looked like it had been returned. It was purchased by a relatively well known (and honest) Marshall dealer. He proceeded to sell it in cut lengths, with the overwhelming majority of it going to a notoriously dis-honest dealer. – Thanks to John M for this info.

Tolex Colour

From mid 1965 to late 1967 – most of the pinstripe period – Marshall were using a really nice looking tolex known as ‘green on black’ levant. You may also see it referred to as ‘blue on black’, ‘green wash’ or ‘blue wash’ – it’s appearance can vary a little.

From late 1967 onwards Marshall started using the more plain looking “black levant” instead – which is actually a very dark green and not true black. As typically found on basketweave cabs and the early 70’s metal panel amps etc.

Green on black vs black tolex

Green on black levant (mid 65 to late 67) vs “black” levant (late 67 to mid 1970’s)

Im sure a lot of people will dispute this, but personally I have never found black levant on any Marshall gear made between mid 1965 to mid 1967 – always the green on black. I’ve owned plenty of 4×12’s and various PA cabs of different shapes and sizes from that period. Never say never with Marshall, but if you do find any black levant, it is definitely against the norm in my opinion and worthy of further investigation!

I think the main reason people debate this is because the green on black levant can be difficult to differentiate from the black levant, especially in photos. The ageing process does seem to fade the green colour on some gear, and a lot of people would actually paint the tolex black or put black boot polish on it.

The best way to identify the tolex is to look on the insides of the cabinet where it has not been exposed to the elements, and where previous owners have not bothered to paint. The tolex can appear black externally but still be the original green on black internally:

Black levant is by far the most easily available tolex of the two, and therefore the most likely to be used on any fakes. Green on black has not been available for decades. There is a similar looking ‘bronco’ tolex available from some retailers but when you see it in person it is nothing like the old Marshall tolex, it is way too green.

Notice the Doyle book (1993 edition – page 125) states that the black levant was used from 1965 to 1974, and the green on black was only ‘used sporadically from 1966’. This has not been my experience at all. Possibly more false information given by dodgy dealers to fuel the sale of lash-ups.

Genuine vs Reproduction Gold 6″ Script Logos

Music Ground logo (top) vs original Marshall logo (bottom)

Music Ground logo (top) vs original Marshall logo (bottom)

The 6″ gold script logo was used by Marshall from around late 1965 to early 1970.

Genuine logos are stiff and fragile (possibly bakelite?), they will easily break if mis-handled. The gold paint is silver underneath when it becomes tarnished.

The reproduction logos have pointed fixing pins on the back, they are a lot more flexible and just not as good quality as the originals.

Notice the small defect on the back of the ‘s’ of the reproduction logo.

Watch out for over the top artificial ageing on the repro logos. Excessive sanding is not realistic in my opinion. Due to the fragile nature of the genuine logos they tend to break into pieces if they get abused. Expect a minor amount of age related paint wear, but not sand blasted!

Metal Handles

Marshall used two types of metal handles: The first version used from mid 1967 to mid 1968 came with slimmer edges down the sides. These handles are very rare to find as spares and were exclusive to Marshall cabs to my knowledge.

The second version used from mid 1968 to late 1971 had wider edges at the sides. These handles are much more common to find as spares, and were used by several other brands besides Marshall. For example, Orange used them well into the late 70’s.

slim handles vs wide handles

slim handles vs wide handles

The transition between the two types of handles was a good 6 months or so into the basketweave period, around mid 1968. So it is highly unlikely you will ever see a genuine pinstripe cab with the wider handles. The pinstripe grill material was phased out very early in 68. Do not let dealers give you the “transitional overlap” and “whatever parts were available” excuse on this one!

Also pay attention to the bolt used in the back of the handles:

Non Marshall brands (Laney, Orange etc) used a large pale grey cross head bolt on one side and large square nut on the other. Marshall handles always came with a smaller black hex bolt.

Examples of fake Marshall gear

Fake pinstripe 4×12’s with metal handles

Most of the fake pinstripe cabs I have seen for sale are later period cabs – basketweave period usually, with a replacement grill cloth. These can be identified very easily by the type of metal handles.

As mentioned earlier, the pinstripe grill material was phased out very early in 1968, and the wider style metal handles only appear around mid 1968 – well into basketweave period. So you are very unlikely to find a pinstripe cab with those later wider handles:

Fake 67 Pinstripe B Cab

Fake 67 Pinstripe B Cab

This cab very likely also has a fake grill material, although the photos are too blurry to see it properly. The speakers inside have fake “18th June 1967” date stamps printed on the frame instead of the front gasket, and the white Marshall labels are fakes too.

Fake pinstripe 4×12’s with strap handles

All Marshall 4×12’s came with leather strap handles until around mid 1967.

Fake pinstripe strap handle cab

Fake pinstripe strap handle cab

This cab was for sale on UK ebay a few years ago. The speakers are very obvious fakes with the fake ’12BM’ (12th Feb 1967) date stamp printed on a chassis type that was only used from 1969 onwards.

Notice the black levant in near mint condition, and the gold piping appears to be too thin for Marshall. Also the like new chrome handle end pieces, yet with completely shredded leather parts.

The pinstripe material is difficult to authenticate without seeing a good quality close up photo. Although lets face it, the odds of it being genuine are very slim.

Fake pinstripe combos

As I mentioned earlier, these combos are an absolute favourite for fakery due to their high collector value. Please be very careful when buying them.

Fake bluesbreaker combo

Fake 18w pinstripe combo

This amp was on ebay a while ago. Notice the inconsistent road wear – black levant tolex in near perfect condition for a 50yr old amp, yet apparently the grill got trashed and needed sewing up in several places.

Looking inside, if you know your Celestion speakers you will recognise that these are ‘G12S’ model speakers by the size of the magnet and the little red sticker in the center, likely model T1417. Yet they are stamped as T1221 from Jan 1967!

I suspect in this case the speakers would have had plastic G12M covers on the backs to hide the magnet size, but they have probably gone missing over the years. Common practise was to fit a white Marshall label on the back too.

General tips for avoiding fakes

Modern day lash-ups

The fakes I have outlined on this page were likely made pre-internet, when all most people had for reference was the minimal, and sometimes deliberately misleading, information and photographs given in books. Although those older fakes are still being traded on the used market, do not expect to see such obvious fakes in a dealers inventory today.

The internet has made both buyers and fraudsters much more knowledgable about what’s right and what’s wrong on vintage gear.

Thesedays fraudulent dealers are using genuine vintage parts and genuine vintage speakers for their lash-ups. Repro parts and fake speaker date codes are way too obvious to get away with now.

For example they might strip down a pair of PA cabinets and then use the tolex, grill material, speakers, piping etc to make a bluesbreaker cabinet.

This means we need to inspect vintage gear much more closely than in the past, down to the nerdiest of tiny details such as the type of staples, type of glue, or how the tolex has been cut. If in doubt get an expert opinion. But more importantly…

Always research the seller

Never buy from a dealer with a bad reputation for selling fakes. A leopard can’t change it’s spots. Without mentioning any names, the worst offenders from the glory days of the 80’s and 90’s are still very much in business and still trading online using all the big trading websites, namely ebay and reverb.

An easy way to wriggle out of a bad reputation is to change business names and use other aliases, so always focus your research on the person running the business, not the business name.

Get Provenance (as best you can)

Used gear can change hands many times, so it is always worth digging as deep as you can to reveal its full history. Obviously if you discover it was originally bought from ‘fakes r us’ then it is best avoided!

A common tactic for boosting the value of an item is to claim it was owned by a high profile celebrity. A £500 amp can become a £100,000 amp if it was once owned by John Lennon! Demand rock solid provenance or pass on it.

Any idiot can write or type a ‘letter of authentication’ and forge a signature. Please do not be hoodwinked by such an easily made document. Even photos of the celebrity holding the instrument can be doctored very easily thesedays with photoshop.

Hendrix with his famous Hello Kitty strat - now worth over £500,000 - comes with letter of authenticity

Hendrix with his famous Hello Kitty strat – now worth over £500,000 – comes with letter of authenticity

Anyway, hopefully this blog post hasn’t put you off buying vintage gear completely, but please do be very vigilant out there. Research the item, but more importantly always research the guy selling it. Stick to the reputable dealers.

Note: I will not approve any defamatory comments made below that name specific businesses or individuals.

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2 Comments

  1. Tom Hinson
    September 13, 2018 / 3:14 pm

    Thank you Brian for this valuable information !!!!

    • Brian Harding
      Author
      September 14, 2018 / 4:47 pm

      Hi Tom, thanks for visiting. Glad you found the info useful.

      regards, Brian.

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